Running time: 1:26:10

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Hosts: Randal Schwartz and Leo Laporte

Guest: Dan Ingalls

Smalltalk and Squeak co-creator Dan Ingalls on Xerox PARC, Apple, and the Lively Kernel.

Thanks to Cachefly for providing the bandwidth for this podcast, and Lullabot's Jeff Robbins, web designer and musician, for our theme music.